Hiding Your Light Under a Bushel

Bill: In this very unusual episode of the True You Podcast. You gave me permission, Marty to coach you live. Listeners will notice that in the first part of the conversation. It's much more like a conventional coaching conversation where as coach, I'm attempting to get clear about what we're doing in the session, what it is we're, we're wanting to accomplish, but once we. Recognize and realize that there is an an internal conflict. We move to bringing the attention to the part that seems to be front, front and forward and, and the one that was influencing you the most. It turns out that that was an exile very soon thereafter, which is predictable. The exiled part began to express and feel, blend with you and feel its pain and you felt its pain protector, rushed right in. It was beautiful. And that protector's the one we spent the majority of the time in during the exploration, but it yielded and, and gave us permission to connect back again with that exile. We even had a firefighter showed up. It was an amazing experience. And at the end we have a beginning.

Marty: Yes. Very much so. I can feel it's radiating out into the whole of my life, the rest of the whole of my life. And so, no, I'm not there yet, but it is a beginning. I feel like on the topic of the true you. This hit. This, hit the target right in the center. I got to be the true me and on the podcast like I never have before.

Bill: yep. It was very moving. Very powerful. So enjoy the episode.

Bill: Well, welcome to the Tru You Podcast with Dr. Martin Kettelhut. Marty, my friend Marty, uh, introduce yourself. Would you please

Marty: morning everybody. It's morning here. Now. You might not be hearing it in the morning where you are, but, I've got morning energy in me. Uh, I am an executive coach. I have been since 98, the last millennium. And, um, work mostly with leaders, uh, entrepreneurs and executives these days. And, um, and I love them. And we have, uh, we have transformative conversations. So it's good work.

Bill: you love your clients?

Marty: do indeed.

Bill: Mm-hmm. What if you

Marty: I choose them.

Bill: have a,

Marty: you know,

Bill: what if are there, are there clients that you find hard to love?

Marty: uh. There are, there are some people who are more of a challenge, that's for sure. Um, but I, I still love them

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: you know?

Bill: Yeah. And that, that's just great.

Marty: Yeah,

Bill: Yeah. And, and isn't it true? Well, if it's, let's see if it's true for you. It's true for me that that coaching gives me the structure in order to express and experience that love.

Marty: exactly Right. Yeah. Yeah. It even that, I like what you said about the structure. 'cause the structure brings out, you know, it's like, it, it's an arena for love to happen.

Bill: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's the magic juice right there. Love. It really is caring about people.

Marty: Yeah. Yeah. And I think everyone does. It's just clearing the obstacles so that that natural love is, can come out.

Bill: I agree. Let me introduce myself. I'm Bill Tierney. I am a compassionate results coach and I use the Internal Family Systems model as the main tool in my coaching. It's not the only tool, but often, more often than not in a coaching session, I'm gonna use Internal Family Systems to help a client, um, become more aware of the internal workings that may be helpful and may not be so helpful when they're pursuing an objective, a coaching objective.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Today we are, I'm gonna coach Marty today, which is, uh, this doesn't happen often and in fact, I don't think we've done this since we had the leadership coaching podcast.

Marty: I don't, I think that's right. Yeah. We, I coached you briefly about a month ago, but it wasn't the whole session.

Bill: Right. Right. Well, yeah, and, and I think I've done the same with you a couple times,

Marty: Mm.

Bill: so let's just dig in, Marty. If, if, if our conversation today helped you, how would you know?

Marty: the, I would, I would see a path forward and feel empowered around my writing.

Bill: A path forward And you would feel empowered.

Marty: specifically not about writing itself, but it's about, uh, getting my writing, read you know, I'm, I'm on a, it's partly why this comes up is that I'm, I'm, I'm having a very productive, uh, season right now, so to speak, as a writer. Like, it's coming out and it's good. and so I'm, it brings up this issue that I feel really torn about. Um. About getting my writing read, getting posts read, getting my books read, getting them in under people's eyeballs

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: and in conversation about them. And, and should I say more? I Go ahead. Just say the what feels where I'm kind of, you know, pulled in two different directions. That's why I thought internal family systems would be a good conversation for me. Um, is,

Bill: love to hear more and, and I'm just noticing the word torn. You used the word torn and I'm, I'm interested in hearing about that terror.

Marty: exactly. So, um, on the one hand, I, I want, My writing to be able to get out there so it can make the difference it's intended to make. And on the other hand, I have no desire to promote, you know,

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: that's not my And yet, and, and, and you know, there's part of me that can get at peace with, well, I'm a writer, I do the writing and that's, that's my, that's my purpose in life. And that suffices. But the other, then the other part of me is like, well, why write it if, if you're not going to get it read? And, you know, I just hope that I'm dead and gone, somebody discovers it. And, and I mean, that would be fine with me, you know? But at the same time, I don't know, I feel a little irresponsible just leaving it, that, at that.

Bill: Hmm. Lemme just reflect back what I'm hearing just to make sure that I'm on the same page. you want your writing to make the difference you wanted to make,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and, and I want to hear more about that too. But first, let's just drive a stake in the two. Um, anchor down the, the two points of contention here. One is there are parts of you that are really, um, purpose-driven with your writing

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and, and, and. You want it, you want your writing to make a difference, and you recognize, and now we're going in, in the direction of the other piece. You recognize that there is a need to put it in front of people so that they can read it, so that it can make that difference.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And then there are parts of you, there's at least eight part, maybe parts of you that, that, uh, don't wanna have to market the book, have, don't wanna have to put it out there.

Marty: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I have this pipe dream I'm in the 19th century, you know, and, and somebody, somebody close to me is gonna say, oh, I'll take that cause up for you. Or, you know, a publisher sees my, you know, my post on LinkedIn, my essay that I've written and says, oh, you should, this should be known. I'll take that on for you. Like, I, you know, that's, and it's not productive, that dream.

Bill: It hasn't been productive for you. We're not in the 19th century, and authors are their main marketers too. Coaches love to coach.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: Many coaches don't like having to go out and ask people if they wanna be their clients.

Marty: And one of the way, one of the times when this tear comes up most is when publishers or people in that industry, you know, there are various levels of that industry contact me because they have seen my book

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: and they, and they think it's valuable and, or at least that's what they say. And then they've got this scheme to get money outta me to publish it, and it pisses me off and it makes me feel guilty for not doing it.

Bill: You got an angry part. When you hear from, from people that want money from you, they offer you what you want, which is to get your book out there and get it published, get people reading it, but then they're asking you for money and that makes you angry. There's a part that gets angry.

Marty: they're asking for money, but they, it's ploying Ploying, you know? It's like, ugh. It is the worst kind of salesmanship and it tugs at my heart, you know, at, at the same time, I, you know, I have this guilt or feeling of irresponsibility about not something to promote the book, you know, it seems.

Bill: Okay. That's what I was gonna ask you about. What's the guilt about, and you feel responsible to get the book out there.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And you'd love some help to get the book out there

Marty: I would.

Bill: and you, you recognize that anybody that would help you get the book out there would, would benefit and you would hope that if they approach you, they would recognize the benefit to them to do to that.

Marty: Yeah. So one person said to me, I thank you for putting it that way because one person said something to me that had a little traction in this war within, uh, and that was, well, who do you need to be? What do you need to do to be discovered? Like, if that's what you want, then do you need to do to be discovered? You wanna be discovered? Okay. Put yourself, do whatever that would take. And I don't know what that is, but I, I liked hearing that, like there was an opening there.

Bill: He's asking, he's going two levels. First. He's, he's, he's starting with the deeper level When he says, who do you need to be? And then, then he is backing off from the depth into what it is, what is it you would need to do in order to be discovered?

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: I just wanna, uh, uh, just get, get my bearings here as, as coach in this conversation

Marty: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Bill: to see first of all where, what would make the most sense for, for what to explore. There's a lot of, lot to explore here. There's, there's your passion. There is the question of what is that intended difference that you write about, that you want people to you, that you wanna make when people read what you've written about. Can we take a minute there?

Marty: Um, okay. It seems like the less urgent part in this conversation.

Bill: I, I agree.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And yet. It's so important to you that you're willing to push up against an internal, uh, concern about marketing yourself. I almost used the word resistance, and that may be accurate, but it would assume that the parts are, are resisting something that concern is probably a more accurate word to use.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause I mean, I, I, I would dive at it if I knew. So I don't feel resistance. I resist certain, uh, you know, paths of course. And I won't take them, in fact. So that's not resistance either. It's just like I'm a no to certain ways of doing this. So

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: I, you know, I think that, what was the second word you said? Instead of resistance? Um,

Bill: Concern. There's a concern about marketing yourself. Yeah. Concern about what actions you might need to take to be discovered.

Marty: So what is that? You wanna know what, what is it that I wanna get out there?

Bill: What is the difference? No. What is the difference that you wanna make? You already told me that, that what's important to you about, about being read that have, having your book read is that you, you know that it will make a difference. What is the difference you imagine, that it will make for the reader? I.

Marty: there are hints of this in both my books already and I'm writing one that focuses in on it even more now. But I think that we've taught ourselves to think a certain way and, um, and it, it's a way of thinking that assumes that what reality is made out of are individual things. And I think that we, we learn to think about the relations at between things as the most basic thing in the universe and, and that that's what everything is made out of a relations, you know, and that, that, and, and I think that this is what physics might, physics might be the, what leads us to that Because in physics they're, they, they confront this. Like they can't get any part isolated. Any quantum, every, even quantum physicists see like, oh no, it's about the relationship between the parts of the atom that make it one type of atom versus another. And so they've hit kind of that rock bottom of relations relationships, and I think that would change. about our that we teach, our you know, our physics, our business practices. It would all be very different if we saw that it's all made outta relationships, not individuals.

Bill: I am just noticing your animation. I'm noticing your energy, your enthusiasm, your passion for this

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: and, and, and based on what I just now heard, you're, you're seeking more relationship with your readers.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: You want an interaction, you wanna be interacting with your readers, but you need readers to be able to interact with because you think that's gonna make the difference. And you want those readers to interact with each other. You want, you want others to inter to recognize the value of relationship, not just with them between each other, but between things, between ideas,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: concepts, projects,

Marty: Yeah,

Bill: teams. Yeah.

Marty: right.

Bill: It's not hard to imagine how this, and, and I know that you write about this in the book, how, how, what this would look like in practical application.

Marty: Right.

Bill: Yeah. Okay. Great. Got it. Anything else you wanna say about that

Marty: No, thanks for asking them.

Bill: clearly important to you? Really important to you

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: and, and maybe even to the degree that this is important to you, do you experience the pain of the mystery? The, the challenge. The dilemma of how do I be, how am I discovered, how is my writing to be discovered

Marty: Right.

Bill: and appreciated and, and, and, and difference making.

Marty: And the irony doesn't go past me. You know, the, this is about relationship.

Bill: Yes. All right. So you said this, this isn't the, I don't know exactly how you said it. I didn't note the words that you said, but essentially what I got from you was when I asked you to talk about the difference you want this to make you indicated, well, this isn't really the issue. It isn't for me. It's not the issue. What, what that difference is. The issue is my what? Unwillingness or un unawareness about how to be discovered.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: What would you say? And it doesn't have to be limited to those two options, unwillingness, unawareness.

Marty: An awareness. I'm

Bill: Okay.

Marty: I, I'm, I. I said, there, there are ways that I think, and the reason I'm against them is because they're individualistic and so they, they would, they would be at odds with what I'm saying and

Bill: Got it.

Marty: a way of being discovered that aligns with what I'm saying.

Bill: There it is. That's what you're after today, a way to be discovered that aligns with your, with what you're saying. With, with the, the how would, I'm trying, I'm struggling with words here. Well, you said a way to be discovered that aligns with the principles of what you're writing about. Yeah.

Marty: the walk down that path is the talk.

Bill: Welcome your talk. Great. So what's the problem? The problem is that you're, you're not aware of a way.

Marty: Yeah. Well now, you know, I, I, I felt when you asked me, you know, and brought on my passion, I felt something, which I never quite said before, and that is that because this goes so deep, I, you know, had the experience already and maybe this is influencing me, uh, you know, where people say, I, I, you know, I don't, it's too hard. It's too different. It's, it's too far. And, and so it doesn't catch right away because it, it, it's revolution. I mean, it goes to the basis of our, the way we experience reality. And so I think it. It's hard for, you know, to be, to consume, to really thoroughly digest what I'm saying.

Bill: It sounds like what you're describing is that it's disruptive.

Marty: Yeah. I'm hesitant to use that term because it's so popular on the far right these days, but yes.

Bill: Oh, okay. I'm not aware of that, but

Marty: Oh, that's the, that's what you wanna be if you're on the far right, disrupt this whole system, you know,

Bill: Oh, I see, I see.

Marty: that's

Bill: Lemme see. Yeah. Okay. I'm just, because I'm not aware of that, I'm just using the word as what I understand it to mean that, that in order for people to integrate your ideas, they begin quickly to recognize that that, it feels extreme because it would disrupt everything that they know, everything, every, how, how they know to relate, how do they know to live?

Marty: I guess, I mean, I guess, I mean, I'm, I'm kind of inferring a little bit what other people think

Bill: Sure.

Marty: few comments, you know, that people have made

Bill: Like,

Marty: and also just based on my own projection, like, yeah, this is very different way to think.

Bill: So what does that stir in you when you, when you hear these things that people are saying and your own, your own concerns about it.

Marty: I go in two directions. of me gets, okay, That's great. It is a challenge. Let's take it on. And then the

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: of me is like, oh, brother, I don't know if I

Bill: That sounds like.

Marty: I don't think

Bill: Mm-hmm. Okay. Maybe that's the part of you that we need to connect with and understand better.

Marty: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: Oh, brother. When I heard you say, oh brother, I felt so, lemme check it out and see if this matches what you felt. Almost a resignation, like it's too much and it's overwhelming. The prospect of pulling this off is overwhelming.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: I've been, there's a, there's an, I've been here before, just to be frank about it. Like, I, I wasn't successful at this, you know, in graduate school, in my, in those writings. Maybe just a few drops of success with a few people, but, but not the impact that I wanted to have

Bill: to this part, this challenge feels daunting and there's history to back it up. And my sense is there's some pain behind that history.

Marty: Yeah. 'cause it feels like this is what I'm here for.

Bill: I'm here for this and my efforts to have it be executionable to be actionable. Uh, have failed.

Marty: Yeah,

Bill: Yeah. Okay. If we could understand the part of you that feels that way, what would be important about understanding why this part feels this way?

Marty: I guess so that, that we could, if we understood

Bill: I,

Marty: then. We could change it.

Bill: all right. So notice that there's a part of you that wants to change the part that feels resigned or, or daunted.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's right.

Bill: And I want, so that part, it makes sense that there would be a part of you that would wanna change that so that, that you would, you could get this, get past this resignation.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And that's valid, isn't it? If you didn't feel this way, you'd be, you'd, you'd be all, let's do it. This, this is a great challenge. Let's take it on. That's what I heard you say.

Marty: Yeah. And there's still that question. I don't, I don't see how I'm willing, but I don't see, see it.

Bill: Yeah. I wanna suggest that the part that feels daunted, that's remembering the pain of the past, uh, might actually hold the key to, to what needs to happen in your system to, to be able to tap into the resources that you would need to be able to see what you can't see now.

Marty: Okay.

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: to that.

Bill: And I don't know what there is to see until we see it, but

Marty: I mean,

Bill: would you check

Marty: of those past projects were more captive in a way. You know, it was, I was in a university program writing for that program, and so those people were the audience, and now it's, you know, I'm in the,

Bill: It's the world,

Marty: yeah,

Bill: right?

Marty: but

Bill: And that,

Marty: I'm open to, you know, exploring what that part could teach us.

Bill: yeah. Yeah. Okay. Great. Uh, you basically answered one of the first questions that I wanna ask just to see if it, if, if we can, uh, cultivate an environment that feels safe enough for any part of you to reveal itself openly and vulnerably, and specifically the part that says over other

Marty: Uh huh.

Bill: Yeah. Are there any concerns? Notice if there are any concerns at, at all about just engaging in a, in an inquiry or an exploration and getting to know this part.

Marty: It does feel vulnerable, but that's not stopping me.

Bill: Okay.

Marty: I also, I feel courage around it as well. Uh,

Bill: you feel courage about having the conversation and I understand that to mean although there are concerns and fears you, this is important enough to go ahead and do it despite the fact that you're scared

Marty: That's right.

Bill: or that you have parts that are scared.

Marty: Exactly.

Bill: Yeah. Yeah. Alright. How do you feel toward the part that says, oh brother.

Marty: how do I feel toward it? it is very familiar. I almost almost sympathize. and I would, I would love to empower that part. I

Bill: Yeah,

Marty: that part and I want to empower it to transform as well.

Bill: yeah. Great. And, and I hear you almost sympathize and, um.

Marty: I don't wanna blend with it. I want, I wanna keep the self energy separate from it. I guess. I don't need,

Bill: I see. I see. So you, you want to sympathize and you feel like you have enough information to do so, and you're concerned about, about having that partake over how you feel.

Marty: right.

Bill: Got it. Yeah. And what is it that you actually feel when influenced by the part, what is that you're, that you're wanting to avoid right now?

Marty: Deflation,

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: resignation, sadness, regret, guilt.

Bill: Wow, that's heavy. I can see why parts of you would wanna avoid feeling that way.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: Yeah. Yeah.

Marty: Yeah,

Bill: And sometimes in order to actually connect with another, another human being or another part of ourselves. We, we need to be willing to actually feel some of what it feels. The part that, that we're connecting with is your system willing to allow you to feel even 10% of what this part feels.

Marty: I just did.

Bill: Boy, this part's in a lot of pain.

Marty: Yes, it is.

Bill: Well, here it is. You okay with this? You okay with feeling the, the 10% or so? And does it feel like you're well within your capacity to feel what the part is feeling to this degree?

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: Okay. See if the part has anything for you to understand. Ask, what would you like me to understand?

Marty: She's very protective. Like, you, don't you see that this is not going to work?

Bill: Oh, notice how different that feels emotionally and, and energetically in your system when you say that than what you just felt a moment ago.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: So is, can I take just a moment to reflect what I think is happening here?

Marty: Okay.

Bill: I don't need to be right about it, but you, uh, you let me know the part that had you, that, that, that we were just connected with a moment ago. The one that feels the despair and the distress. That's an exile part. And what I mean by that is it's being managed by other parts.

Marty: And the, the, the protector just stood on, stepped

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: in, in the

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: it? Yeah.

Bill: So let's welcome that protector into this conversation. And if you could just turn toward the part that felt, that despair, that blended with you enough for you to feel it wasn't that interesting. You gave it permission. You, you gave yourself permission to blend with it and feel its pain and just, just a touch of that pain brought this protector, rushing in.

Marty: Yes.

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: So we, we wanna welcome and thank the protector for its service and what it's trying to do to help. In fact, we're probably gonna take our attention to that now. But before we do, let's, let's make sure that the part that feels all this pain is not feeling abandoned. Let it know that we want to have a safe. Space environment in order to connect with it so we can understand it. And until the protectors, including this one that just showed up, the ones that have been managing it all this time, however long it's been, until we have their permission, until they feel respected, we can't have a safe space in there.

Marty: Mm.

Bill: Does that make sense? Okay. Alright, so with that, how do you feel toward this protector that just stepped in?

Marty: Well, when he did it, it, it of calmed me. Um, it felt easier to be in this conversation. yeah. Um, I feel like, you know, like when you see boxers or, or wrestlers thrown against the ropes, that's what it felt like.

Bill: Yeah, I felt it too. I mean, I, I observed it and I could feel the emotional shift in myself as I was, was connecting with you. So this was an urgent reaction to something.

Marty: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Bill: And let's not just assume what it was reacting to. Maybe we can hear from the part what it, what it was reacting to and what was it trying to accomplish. Feel okay to, to ask.

Marty: Sure.

Bill: All right, so this part that showed up when we were connecting with the distressed exile,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: would you ask what it was reacting to?

Marty: The tender, the tenderness of the, you know, of the despairing part and, and, and the physical sensation of it. Even, you know, like I was shaking my, you couldn't see my legs, but I was shaking and I got really scared.

Bill: It was reacting to that fear and that tenderness.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: Would you ask what its concern was?

Marty: a litany of, uh, scenes from my past just popped up. Um, I'm not sure what they mean, uh, in a word, but, um, where I, you know, when, when I was in the vulnerable place that, that the, this tender part is feel is still feeling that I, I just, I. I, you know, I, I put on a stiff upper lip, like, like I sent my, my diploma from iu. I, I didn't, I just like, I don't even want it. Just, you know, and my mom was like, well, send it to me then, you know, so she took it and gave it to me many years later. But I, you know, I didn't even wanna see it. and this, this is about writing that was not well received. and other times, you know, when I just, I just kind of do this sort of stoic thing, you know, like, okay, well I'll, I'll be stoic about this. So, yeah, I guess I feel that stoic is the best way I can think to say it. Like I'm just, I'm just going to stiff up her lip and keep moving forward. You know? Unfortunately, life isn't working out.

Bill: Yep. Yeah. Okay. So this, what I'm getting from what you just shared is the parts showing an, answering your question about what it was concerned about. My question that I asked you to ask, which was, what are you, what were you concerned about when you were reacting to this tenderness and this fear of the exile? The memories indicate it, it was reacting to that very fear, that tenderness, and by getting rigid, stiff, stiff, upper lip, stoic, uh, the affect of, you know, this doesn't matter. I don't care.

Marty: Right, right.

Bill: You know, would you ask the part if we're beginning to understand a little bit about what, what it's trying to accomplish?

Marty: I dunno why, but the phrase be a man just

Bill: Hmm. Yeah.

Marty: don't be a wimp. Don't be a a weenie, don't be. That's, I think he is, this protector's trying to keep me from looking like a victim, I guess.

Bill: Don't look like a vi victim. Be a man I, that translated in my mind as don't be weak. Does that match with the, would you ask the part, don't be weak. Is that accurate too?

Marty: is.

Bill: Okay. Alright, so staying with the part, what would happen if it allowed you to be a peer weak?

Marty: I think this part thinks that's what's needed, to survive and live the, live the proper life. You know, like, you know, if, if, if people don't like what you write, to put it in a simplistic way, then you know, buck up buddy. You know, this is life here. That's what you need to do,

Bill: And it's fear is survival. You won't survive.

Marty: right? If I'm weak, I won't survive.

Bill: Yeah. And so you take a hit, like a disappointment. You're, you, you put your passion into words and you put it out there and it's not accepted and it's not embraced. It's not appreciated.

Marty: It's like it's, there's ano, there's a notion in there of like, matters what other people say,

Bill: Yeah. Yeah,

Marty: what other

Bill: yeah,

Marty: You know, you can't not by that. It's, that's the world. That's reality. That's human reality.

Bill: yeah. Yeah. And the memories also go back, it sounds like about 40, 45 years

Marty: Something like that. Yeah. I mean, I mean it, this goes back even farther, I'm sure, to my, you know, other experiences. Back when I was a little boy, the, that was just one of the first ones that, that came up here.

Bill: you, we froze up there as you, you said this goes back, I'm sure to

Marty: two being a little, two times other times when I was little, I

Bill: Yeah. So is that, do you have specific memories about that as well? That, that, that align with this? I, let's ask the part. Yeah. Rather than trying, trying to remember. Let's see if we can just ask the part if it has a memory from earlier that it wants to show you.

Marty: I built all kinds of things, um, when I was young, like woodworking things and, and a whole magic show routine and model railroading like square feet of it down in the basement. All these things and. I think my parents were glad that it kept me busy, but I don't remember them ever saying, wow, that's really right. You know, it was, it was like, how are we gonna move that? What we're gonna move, you know, does it take up so much room and, you know, stuff like that. Like appreciated.

Bill: Yeah, I think we're starting to get a little closer to the, to the pain.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Yeah. Let's go back to the protector again. That's, that's giving you all this information. How are you feeling toward this part?

Marty: I wanna have it take Ketamine

Bill: Yeah. Does it feel like it's not relaxed right now? It's it's really given you a lot of information.

Marty: it's more relaxed now. Yes. Yeah.

Bill: You're just saying in, in general, in your life from the perspective of the part that wants it to, to relax in your life. What's it, what is its concern? You get this, there's another part that's coming in and saying it is a problem. This is a problem part and it, and we need it to relax.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Uh, why, what is the concern?

Marty: Well, I made a connection to like evening spend under the influence, you know, to relax because this part is, has been protecting me the whole day, you know?

Bill: I see, I see. So let's welcome in the firefighter that, that is trying to bring balance into this internal equation, an internal conflict that says, let's not look weak

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: because there's a lot at stake here. And, and, something, something like, what I do doesn't matter. There's the train set downstairs that you put all your heart into. And when parents come there, they say, well, look what you did. And it appears to be a burden. It appears that what you've made here is a problem, and that's not what you were looking for. What were you looking for?

Marty: that they take delight in it, that they enjoy it, that they, they wanna stay and play with me.

Bill: Yeah. Yeah. And did that happen?

Marty: No.

Bill: No.

Marty: No.

Bill: So this protector's been doing its job ever since this need that you had. That's a basic need to be seen, to be recognized, to be valued, to be appreciated, to be connected with this, to have a relationship, a connection of connection with your parents,

Marty: It translates directly into wanting people to discuss my book with me.

Bill: right? Sure, sure. Doesn't it make sense to you that this protector is still doing its job, trying to protect you from that very pain that you felt when you saw that who you owe, who you were and what you did was a burden rather than an appreci, something to be appreciated and, and what did you just, just say? Celebrated.

Marty: That, that protective part is now getting concerned about how much time we have left, if it's gonna pull in that, well, hadn't we better wrap this up now? It's

Bill: May maybe. Maybe we do. Thank you for pointing it out. I haven't been watching time very closely. Um, I'm just gonna look and see and then negotiate with you how much time we have left. I have up to another 30 minutes.

Marty: Hmm.

Bill: How about you?

Marty: I could do that, but if I

Bill: Okay.

Marty: to, I, I mean if natural, if it went that way, but we might not need that much time.

Bill: Check with the protector. It had a concern about how much time we were taken.

Marty: It's, uh, yeah, it's sat back.

Bill: Okay. Alright. And I do wanna honor the, we didn't actually speak about how much time we would have together, but it would be assumed that we should be done in about 15 minutes here, because that's how much time we allocate nip normally for a podcast episode.

Marty: great.

Bill: So lemme just, let's just acknowledge that this is a longstanding 60 plus years dilemma that's being managed and, and we've, we've got a part that's feeling all the pain still. You, you gave yourself permission early in the, in the conversation to feel only 10% of the pain that the part that's being managed feels. And it became so concerning to the, the main protector that tries to manage that pain so you don't get overtaken by it because there's so much tenderness and so much fear. This is this part, this protector is very dedicated to this tender young part of you

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: that was hurt by not getting its need met and by whatever meaning making it had around what that meant, that you didn't get your needs met.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: And I don't want to paint over what I, what I think that message is. It seems apparent to me, but I, I'd much rather hear it from the, the tender exile. What did the tender exile make it mean? But before we go there, we have to make sure we have permission from the projector. So would you ask this protector that's been been managing this,

Marty: is. He's already said yes, and I'm, I'm connecting with the tender part now, it's, it's, what it's feeling is I'm, I'm just like, I'm nothing. I'm, I'm worthless. There's nothing, there's nothing of value here,

Bill: Can I try on some, some, some words for what I, as you say that, let me just not say that. What are you feeling right now? What are you experiencing?

Marty: ache.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: existential ache.

Bill: I'm gonna ask you just to close your eyes, connect with the part that feels that ache, see if it's okay with your system for you to feel this right now, if there's any concern about that.

Marty: It is. Okay.

Bill: Okay. How are you relating to the part that feels the ache right now?

Marty: I wanna comfort it. I want to like hug. Hug him

Bill: Him. Yeah. And do you see him in your mind's eye, can you describe what you see and where you see him?

Marty: He's like little boy. He is crouched. Crouched down little shorts and little t-shirt, like little

Bill: Hmm

Marty: wear it.

Bill: mm-hmm.

Marty: And it's got big blue eyes and curly blonde hair and he's just alone.

Bill: Where?

Marty: I could see him different places. I used to go to hide the bushes in the front yard, up in the, up in the Sweet Gum tree. In the backyard

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: or um, by this pond in the park. There were different places that he used to crouch down and play.

Bill: Did you use the word hide? He was, he's hiding.

Marty: Yeah, I would do that at times just to get away from You know, the noise in the house or the, conversation. My, my, my dad's heated conversation or, the, the neighborhood kids, you know, and their shenanigans.

Bill: Yeah. Okay. Does this, this, this little boy in the shorts know that you're here with him?

Marty: Yes, he does.

Bill: How, how does he seem to feel toward you?

Marty: He's, he's good. He's, he's happy to be this attention and, and tenderness.

Bill: He's actually getting what the, the need met right now That, that he missed out on. How's that for him to, to have your tender presence with him?

Marty: it's very fulfilling. There's a lot of energy running,

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: us.

Bill: Can we let the energy run and, and, and let whatever wants to happen happen?

Marty: I've gathered him up in my arms and I'm just, I'm just, I'm just rocking with him. He missed me.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: All the, all the times that I was stoic and just let him be alone.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: He's, he is soaking this up. He loves it.

Bill: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That stoic protector who had only that strategy to use to protect him. Didn't have the resources that you now bring. Yeah. These young little parts of you have been trying to manage this pain all this time, or to beat and hold this pain all this time without the resources that you now have. Can that little boy sense your strength? By strength, I mean your, your capacity, your compassion.

Marty: Yeah. Yes, he does. He turned, I was kind of cradling him like you do a baby, but now he's turned, he put one arm around my neck and I wear heart to heart.

Bill: Nice. Nice. Yeah.

Marty: It's good for me too. It's good for him, and it's good for me to, I still have that tenderness, that I'm not just a protector. I'm not just as.

Bill: There's a part of you that protects and he's getting the experience of the, of the self of you, the fully resourced self of you that has that same love for him that you talked about earlier in our conversation. That you have for your clients,

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: for you, that you have, for the people in your life, you, that you have for the readers, that you have for the world.

Marty: Yeah. He's right there with us. He is standing by and he's totally okay with what's

Bill: The protector, the stoic. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And maybe he doesn't have to do that anymore. What would that turning toward the protector, what would he need in order for him not to have to feel like he had to, has to be stoic and like it doesn't matter, and to look strong for people.

Marty: What would he need?

Bill: Wouldn't he need to know that this little boy's Okay. That he's not harm gonna be harmed,

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: that he's gonna get his needs met. Yeah,

Marty: Yes.

Bill: so ask, ask. Well, let me just say this and ask these parts to, to listen as I say it and let me know how this lands Marty. What you and I have did done is we just done did some time traveling. We went back to that little boy in the shorts and we found him and his protector there. That tells us that the protector's about that H two in, in other words about that resourced. How old were you?

Marty: I don't know, uh, like eight,

Bill: Okay. All right. All right, all right. So imagine, you know,

Marty: 10.

Bill: all right, let's just say 10 years old. You're you. Um, you've got a book. It's an important book. You wanna get it out in the world, and you want people to read it. You want it to make a difference, a huge difference. And you want, despite the fact that, that it mean, it's gonna mean to them that, that, that they're gonna see things in a much different way than they've ever seen them before. And it'll change how they interact in the world with and with each other. And that it might be hard for them to do that. But with this concept, if they can really get it, it might make that difference in the world that you want it to make. You're feeling it now. And now go to a 10-year-old and ask 'em how to get the book out there. Yeah. No wonder he's overwhelmed. No wonder it's a, it, it, it, it doesn't, you don't know how to do it. You said you wanted a, a way to be discovered that aligns with the principles that you write about. You haven't been able to do that because there's been a 10-year-old that's been trying to, to market this book for you. You need him to do that anymore?

Marty: No. no, that's not his job.

Bill: Let him know. You're the one that wrote the book. The fully resourced version of you is the one that, that tapped into the ideas that put them into words, that put 'em on, on paper. That you are much more resourced than he is. And if it's true for you, let him know how much you appreciate his efforts to help all this time. And ask him, does it feel safe enough now to let you take the, take it from here given that you're here with the hurting part of him, the hurting part of you that he's been trying to protect.

Marty: Yes, yes. He would like that.

Bill: So before we end, I wonder if you can bring both the protector and the protected into the present moment in a safe space where they, they're no longer subject to not getting needs, needs met, and whatever, meaning they attach to that about yourself. And we heard it. I'm, I'm worthless. So would both of these parts like to, to come into the safer space in the present moment and lean on your resourcefulness and your love and your care for them?

Marty: Yes, that feels good to them.

Bill: And are there parts of you that are more aligned and self-led, uh, that helped, perhaps, that helped you write the book or part parts that, that value the message of your book that now are able and willing to step up and, and help you to discover whatever it takes to be discovered?

Marty: Yeah. Right? Yes. Mm-hmm. Like the ex, the business experience part and, and the, the art articulate part yes.

Bill: These two are bringing into the present moment a burden from the past, and we can just call it I don't matter.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: what do they wanna do with that? Let's go to, let's go to the protector. Does the protectors still believe that who you are doesn't matter?

Marty: No, it doesn't think that.

Bill: And, and what?

Marty: It just didn't want the other part to get to feel that.

Bill: Right.

Marty: that,

Bill: Check in with the other part. Does this, the other part, still hold that as true?

Marty: no, no, it doesn't anymore.

Bill: So there's nothing to let go of I when the need's finally getting met. There's no reason to explain why it's not,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: I don't matter. Explain why the need wasn't getting met.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: These parts believe that you, that they do matter to you.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Right. They do. Mm-hmm.

Bill: What, what needs to happen for this to feel complete for these young parts?

Marty: In fact, there's this feeling of like, it matters that we publish this because that tenderness matters in the world.

Bill: Yeah. That's beautiful. So that's the partner you ship. You need from them. You need that tenderness to inform all that you do moving forward to get this out into the world.

Marty: Exactly.

Bill: Yeah. What could matter more than that?

Marty: Right, right. Thanks.

Bill: Oh yeah, you're welcome and time will reveal what there is to do. That aligns with the message of the book in the way that you get, that you get it out there.

Marty: Right. Uh, framed. The question has been framed. There's a lot of power in just having framed the question. Oh, it's about finding a way out there that aligns. That's not all the noise out there of that's

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: but

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: be through relationship.

Bill: Mm-hmm. You said of, in all that fray, of all the people that come contacted you to get what they needed and wanted out of you so that they could promote your book, or by promoting your book, there was one voice that actually stuck with you that was more aligned in, in, had integrity. And the question was, who would you need to be and what would you need to do?

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And, and even that person, it sounds like, had enough of, uh. Maybe a con conflicted message, an agenda where they, they, they were looking out for themselves more than they were looking out for you. But that piece of what they presented, who would you need to be and what would you need to do? I don't know if you have that answer now, but I wonder, I'll, I'll ask Anyhow. Who would you need to be to go about discovering how to, how to be discovered?

Marty: Well, what's a tender,

Bill: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marty: Un

Bill: to be disappointed.

Marty: Un, and connected in relationship, heart to heart.

Bill: Yes. Yeah. That for whatever reason, what you just now said seems to have some roots in it.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: Like maybe something can be grown from that.

Marty: Beautiful.

Bill: Is this a good time to end?

Marty: Yes.

Bill: Thanks for trusting me.

Marty: Thank you.

Bill: I, I just, I can really feel your heart. Tremendous amount of respect and love for you right now.

Marty: Thank you.