Marisa Skolky

Marty: Welcome to the True You Podcast. I am so glad today to be not only with my co-host, bill Tierney, but also with a special guest today, Marissa. And, um, before we actually let you say anything, I'm gonna introduce you. Okay. Say something.

Marisa: All right. That sounds wonderful.

Marty: Great. Marisa Skolky

Marisa: You got it?

Marty: it's such an interesting background, so I wanna read what your bio says. You are a seasoned transformational doula, expressive arts facilitator and psychedelic integration coach. Wow. Specializing in trauma-informed integration of non-ordinary states of consciousness. Marissa's work weaves IFS informed, expressive arts, somatic therapy, hypnotherapy, and reiki into a co. Adhesive cyclo spiritual model for preparation, harm, reduction, and integration. That's a lot. That's a lot of concepts too. You have got a lot of experience. We're going to love getting into this. So with over a decade of experience, Marissa supports individuals in safely exploring consciousness. Releasing trauma held in the body and reclaiming their creative life force as a path to healing and self-discovery. So this is an interesting approach. Uh, honors the nervous system, the wisdom, the psyche, and the intelligence of the soul.

Marisa: Yes.

Marty: Bridging ancient shamanic ways with modern therapeutic frameworks. Marissa believes healing is a birthright. And that through embodied creativity, compassionate witnessing, and intentional integration, profound and lasting transformation is possible. So we're gonna get that today. It's just amazing, all of the fascinating stuff here to talk about, and it's all in this one beautiful person we have before us today.

Marisa: Aw.

Bill: Welcome, Marissa.

Marisa: I'm so grateful to be here. I'm just huge fans of your podcast and the work that you're doing and supporting safe spaces for people to get to know their themselves and their parts. It's really deep transformational work.

Bill: You were saying before we hit record that's how you found us was by attending parts for practice sessions, and then you discovered the podcast, I assume came next.

Marisa: Yes, that is very true. Yes. And I also have worked with Lori, I think Chauncey, I think her is her last name and she's been on this podcast too. She's someone that I admire and appreciate very much.

Bill: In fact she is she still in Georgia? She was also in Georgia.

Marisa: Yes, we, yes, we have intermingled our networks together and we are friends and peers.

Bill: Yeah. So for the listener, if you haven't heard the Lori Chancey interview podcast episode, look it up. I'm not sure which episode it is, but yeah, Lori's great to listen to as well.

Marty: I'm just curious how all this got started for you. Maybe it never. Never started. It's always been, and you just became aware of it going on inside you. But either way, there's kind. I'd be interested to know the origin story of all this beautiful work you're doing.

Marisa: Gosh, it's been really a re reclamation of my psychic gifts and my intuitive abilities as a highly sensitive. Person and someone that has always been very expressive. Musical dancing, singing always in Broadway shows. Growing up, my, my parents were musical. I played piano since, I was three guitar. I've always made up my own songs. So that has always been a part of my, I think my self energy, my. My soul is a musical medicine woman, and in fact I don't know how much you guys know about the Mayan calendar. The Zalkin calendar. You have an archetype based on your birthday, and mine is the white galactic wizard. And basically what that means is an archetype that uses art and music and heart-centered consciousness to help people come back home to themselves. And, my journey of overcoming bulimia that I struggled with for 16 years, but ultimately I had struggled with eating disorders, including anorexia and all sorts of stuff since I was at least six or seven years old. And. The work that I have done with plant medicines, with IFS, with somatic work, expressive arts has really led me into a process of learning how to take my emotions and make art with it so that I can alchemize and transmute any resistances and bring it into harmony. And I live my life as ceremony and as art. And this has been a long journey for me. And learning how to work with my parts and manage a system that can sometimes feel very intense and overwhelming as when you're a highly sensitive person and you feel things very deeply,

Marty: when did that sensitivity, when was it first like you knew, oh, this is a thing. To deal with.

Bill: Being high, highly sensitive.

Marisa: Oh gosh, my, my whole life, I've always been very just, I can read energy, I could feel things. When I grew up in New Jersey during nine 11, I sensed that something was going to happen that day and my dad was supposed to go into work. He was gonna go work at the towers, and I was like, don't go into work today. And I must have been like 12 or something at the time. had, I woke up and my whole body was like, covered in rashes. My heart

Bill: Oh.

Marisa: really fast. I've always. super in tune with what's going on around me. Hypervigilant also because of some of the upbringing that I had around a parent that wasn't able to regulate their own emotions and therefore I had hypervigilant parts. That internalized that. And it led to me to avoid and distract myself from the, Shame that I felt around being much or not being enough. And that's like the core wounds that I've been making into my art other people like these core making songs for the help, helping them create songs for their soul so that they can rewire their relationship using a creative means. But yeah, it's been quite, quite a journey and I have learned a lot through experiential. Means.

Marty: clearly it's been your experience. No, I just wondered if there was a point at which like, oh, I'm not like others. I have a gift, or I have a, something to be ashamed of. Was there a moment when you realized, oh I am, I'm different.

Marisa: Yeah, I think I've always been the black sheep of my family, like extra expressive to the beat of my own drum. I'm definitely the only one in my family that works with psychedelic.

Marty: mm-hmm.

Marisa: and I actually was an assistant vice president at an insurance brokerage for 12 years, and I quit. I was doing my my my healing work part-time.

Marty: The context of this conversation that sounds psychedelic.

Marisa: know it does. It was like I was wearing a mask, I had my insurance broker, Marissa version, and then I was binging and purging 'cause it was so stressful and I wasn't in alignment. And then when I finally got to a point where my body was breaking down and I was on the debt. I was about to die. I was so sick that I was about to die and I took a three month sabbatical. I went to Mexico. I worked with a medicine called Iboga and Iboga, and I actually, for the first time in my entire life, felt what peace felt like and also what self energy meant. And it changed my entire life. And I quit my corporate job. I went full-time with my healing work, and I never looked back.

Bill: can we slow that down? You, so you're dying. Did you know you were dying?

Marisa: Yes, I had, my adrenals had shut down my, I was about to have surgery on my bladder. My hair was falling out. I was highly emotionally and energetically like not very stabilized, very depressed, incredibly anxious.

Bill: And how did you find your way to Mexico in this iboga?

Marisa: I had been working with different types of plant medicines since 2009, and in touch with different shamans and medicine people that were guiding me. I had an incredible level of intellectualization and awareness about my patterns. But somatically nervous system wise, I was stuck. And I had heard that Iboga was a medicine that could rewire your dopamine receptors and also rewire your central nervous system. And it gave you a 90 day window after your IB gain flood to be able to restart your whole life basically, reset all your patterns. And I. Had an EKG and a full blood panel. 'cause it, it's serious medicine. One in 400 people die on a microdose. So I risked my life and I did this medicine. It was my last hope. 'cause I had tried the therapy. I had tried all sorts of different, I had hypnotherapy, rake, I tried everything. had probably done at least 15 years of talk therapy, EMDR, like all the things, all the plant, psilocybin, MDM, like all the medicines except. For this one, and when I went out there, felt like I had a reset and I took that opportunity to change everything in my life and treat my life like I was starting over and I was going to live my life without fear and in alignment with my higher self and from a grounded, clear integrity place.

Marty: Hmm.

Marisa: And that's still my mantra.

Bill: That intention that you just described, did that come before the Iboga or And with the assistance of that. Okay so you've got a clear slate now.

Marisa: Yes.

Bill: Clean slate. And from that clean slate, you have the ability to set an intention and you and I and Marty too, and many of our listeners understand what self-energy is. you say that was a self energized choice or intent?

Marisa: Yes. Yes.

Marty: I've just I wanna acknowledge your bravery, your courage, right? When you tried all these things and life was hard in a lot of ways and things were falling apart, and 401 in 400 people even die of this, and you went. Whoa. What a brave girl you are.

Marisa: Thank you.

Bill: It sounds like you didn't have much to lose though, too. I don't mean to discount

Marisa: I

Bill: the courage. I agree with Mark.

Marisa: I was willing to take the chance and if I died, then I died.

Bill: Yeah.

Marisa: for sure, but it was, there's that quote by Anaya sn, right? There's like only so much you can take in terms of staying the same before you need to, before you break out of your shell.

Bill: Yeah. Yeah.

Marisa: And I was fighting myself for a really long time and it was tiring. And so I have so much compassion when I work with other people, with IFS and all these different modalities. 'cause I've actually been to the, these, this place of the underworld where I've, I know what it's like to have a divorce. I know what it's like to almost lose everything. I know what it's like to not be in alignment, and I also know what it's like to feel hopeful and connected and in integrity and in alignment. I have embodied experience and I also clinical and professional training that also supports that growing growth for me so that I can be a clear channel and hold space for others without, transference and counter transference and whatnot.

Marty: Back to the My calendar. I wanna know the archetypes under which I was born and what you know, and start to explore that and see where that takes.

Marisa: Oh my gosh, she would love it. It's

Marty: okay. Law of

Marisa: time.org/decode. And you could put your birthday in and it gives you a color and a tone and an archetype. you might be white or blue or red or,

Marty: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marisa: yellow and you have a tone. So each tone, each number corresponds with a different energy. So for me, galactic is the number eight, which is lost, like this infinite timelessness, endlessness energy of in infinity. that's the energy of what I bring, is this infinite enchanting energy of positive possibilities that inspire and activate other people.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Marisa: But it wasn't until I accepted my muchness that I was really able to, to trust and expand and knowing that I was gonna trigger people with how big of a energy I am and what I can, that there's gonna be some people that I rub the wrong way. And then there's gonna be some people that feel inspired and some people that feel threatened and triggered by it, and,

Bill: You claimed your muchness and some people in interpreted that as too muchness

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: that too. I was just in a conversation with a client 15 minutes before we signed on for the, to record this episode where we had a similar conversation, certainly not the same language to describe the conversation, but at the essence, the conversation was about draining it is to try to be someone who you're not.

Marisa: Oh. Yes, a hundred percent

Bill: You said that you had been fighting yourself for a long time. So let's go ahead and speak some IFS here. What parts were in conflict?

Marisa: The part that didn't think she could handle anything, the part that was overwhelmed, the part that was the distractor, the part that was catastrophizing. The worst case scenarios, the part that does what she wants, binge zilla,

Bill: You have a list of parts you're referring to. You keep looking down.

Marisa: Yes,

Bill: do?

Marisa: have a,

Bill: Okay.

Marisa: I was prepared for this

Bill: Yeah.

Marisa: Yeah, I, the, none of these parts, all these are just parts of my system that I'm sure other people have too, like the perfectionist and the task master and like the intellectualize and, but I have really fun, creative ways of working with them, and I make songs for them. They, each one, each part has a song.

Bill: Oh, really?

Marisa: when I sing, oh yeah. And when I sing the song, they soften back and they're like, oh,

Bill: That's my song.

Marisa: and you see me.

Bill: She's singing my song.

Marty: Hmm.

Marisa: singing my song.

Bill: That's great.

Marisa: Is a way for me to break through the fear of myself and into the creative space of possibilities and create space in my nervous system.

Bill: You just made a really good point that maybe people that are relatively new to IFS may not understand quite yet, I want to really underline it and bold it here. Maybe even put it in italics, and that is that, when parts relax. Very naturally, the innate self, the energy of self emerges, and that's the whole purpose of IFS is to increase self-leadership. Self-leadership happens when we become self energized and self-energy happens when parts relax. Parts don't intend to block, maybe not even aren't, maybe aren't even consciously aware that they're blocking access to self energy and all of the jewels and resources that can be accessed thereof.

Marisa: Right.

Bill: So singing, singing, composing, and then singing these songs to your parts, helps them to relax, gives you more self energy. Tap helps you tap more into yours, your resources, and that's where all that creativity comes from.

Marisa: Yes,

Bill: and all of a sudden there's this muchness that's showing up.

Marisa: yes,

Bill: Isn't this a fun conversation?

Marisa: of course. Yeah. Yeah. When we could use our, the. The meat from our parts and how they're feeling, and we can take that and put it into a creative process of creating an aesthetic response a movement, a dance, a dialogue, a storytelling. There's something that can, you're right, it creates a spaciousness and a relaxation, and an understanding, and a permission for that part to be heard, seen and witnessed and expressed instead of pushed away.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: Marty, I wanna give you an opportunity to jump in. I've got so many different trailheads that we can

Marty: Go right ahead. Go right ahead. I'm, I'm here with you.

Bill: Let me just name a few things. One I'm curious about your ongoing experience with plant medicines, but let's not go there quite yet. But when we're ready I'm really eager to talk about that. I wanna talk more about the idea of, and the concept of self and self energy with you just to get your take on it, because I have a relatively, what seems to be a relatively unique take on it. That doesn't align for a lot of people, and it's okay if it doesn't align with you. I just wanna have that conversation and then maybe as, as interesting as both of those topics are to me the thing that I'm, that I really hope that we can talk about today is that in your practice, helping people, using all of these different modalities and tools your experience with helping people to unburden what that even means to you. Do you mind if we start there?

Marisa: Oh yes. I love this topic. The I guess it relates to the plant medicine work that I have done studying with Lakota elder named Grandma Shirley in Mexico. in the work that we do in te mescal, in sweat lodge, that's also a space of, rebirthing yourself. Like you come, you go into the womb and you come back unburdened and re refreshed in a somatic. a spiritual, in an embodied sense, but in terms of in IFS, the work that I've done with Exorcisms with Grandma Shirley, the Lakota elder that I've studied with has been incredible because it's not all the time that you get to practice unburdening a part that, doesn't actually belong to that person's system. And the nuance that it takes to make sure that you're not unburdening a part that's actually a part of their system that they just have a resistance to. And that's a growing edge for me in my mentorship with. I, my IFS therapist and also with the indigenous elders where I work on in the spiritual and energetic space of unburdening energies and ancestral patterns that, may not be part of that system. But in terms of if. is part of that system. can we allow that part to have a new role? And I like to use the elements. So I use bring in the fire and the earth, right? And the air and the ether make it a ritual, a ceremony so that there's intention and that there's agreements around the transmutation of this part's role. And make sure that it feels fully heard, seen and understood before it agrees to, even unburden it. Pain or or beliefs that it's unburdening the creative process of visualization. And I always like to make it real for the client. So we go and we take, we, we dig out a hole and we're unburdening in that digging of the hole. We're unburdening the limiting belief. And then we actually plant a seed. Of the qualities that they want that part to have. And we, they do it at the same time that they're unburdening the process. So it's like a process of actually planting a new seed for that for that person to water and nourish and how that relates to the natural cycle of our connection with the earth and how the earth unburdens and how the earth and alchemizes and there's this, a spiritual. Energetic and emotional peace that goes along with the unburdening process, and I take care in making sure that I'm doing it in a pace that is slow and is trauma informed and not going faster than the part is ready to go.

Bill: Yeah. Great. Yeah. I'm delighted to hear a couple of the things that, all of what you just said, but especially around what is a burden, defined it right there in, as you des described it, a burden is the unresolved emotional pain from trauma it's the belief that helped the person, survive the trauma. Would you, how would you define it in any other way or in an additional way to that?

Marisa: sometimes it takes shape in right, in a form or an image. Or a memory. And so it could be deeper. It could. It could be like a pain in your left foot has been there for us since you were born and and how to work with that in an experiential way where you're bringing in self energy and creativity to help that person meet themselves in a new person, in with a new perspective.

Bill: Let's just say, let's just use that for an example. Let's say I've got, and I don't, but let's just, for example, say maybe that burden settled in the bottom of my right heel. So how does that, how would you work with that to unburden?

Marisa: I would first ask if that part is, if the right heel to me connecting with it today, and I would ask for permission first.

Bill: So from that, you're assuming that the pain in the left heel is actually the domicile of the part?

Marisa: I would start there because that's where the felt sense

Bill: Yes.

Marisa: and I always like to start with the body. Because ultimately there's a lot that the body stores in terms of subconscious. So when I work with people, and I'm also a student of the Alpa Institute for Expressive Arts Therapy, they have a really incredible program of basically drawing, painting, dialogue and movement. And they always say, start with the body. And so on whatever you're feeling, so a part comes up, all right it's the right heel. How does that if the right heel. Were a movement, what would it, how would it move? Maybe it wouldn't move at all. Maybe it would just be very subtle, but like to start with the experience and the sensation. How much tension, what, how, what the temperature so start with the embodiment piece and then move into like how does it feel, how are you feeling towards it, and getting into that. As you build relationship with the embodiment of it, then you can work. With what comes up from there. I, that's how I tend

Bill: Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful.

Marisa: the body.

Marty: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: And that's very reliable, very, I'm not, I don't consider myself to be a somatic expert in any way, shape or form. I don't have hardly any training in it other than through IFS, which teaches that too. This is, we're in on, near or around the body. Are you finding or experiencing this part? So that's great. And I love how you are. Really diving in and looking at all the different facets of the experience. Of the physicality of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Marisa: Yeah.

Bill: and within that we find a connection with the part. And now we can have a conversation.

Marisa: Yes. And then we can have a conversation and maybe that conversation is,

Bill: I.

Marisa: maybe that person's gonna draw that part on a piece of paper and maybe they, there's a title. For that drawing. And now that they've, maybe there's a story behind that drawing and maybe that they are writing the story of that parts experience. And now we're gonna act out, act it out together. And I'm gonna play the part of self-energy and you're gonna play the part of the foot and then we'll switch roles.

Bill: Nice. Gosh, I love, is great. I would love to have an experience like that. It's fantastic. Okay. Anything else you wanna say and, oh, what, let me just move over to Marty. Marty not trained in the IFS model has learned, I think a lot from me in the conversations that we've had. But how's this conversation flowing for you as you're hearing Marissa and I talking about on these IFS terms?

Marty: it's, it is flowing.

Bill: Okay. Anything you wanna ask or add?

Marty: what I'm thinking about, I'm wondering you know, what, if you've got somebody who you're working with, somebody who's, well, I don't draw, I don't, I don't know how to write music. Where do, where do we go then?

Marisa: I love that question. Thank you. I work with where they're at, first of all, and I never push somebody further than where I think that they're growing edge is.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Marisa: there's like a lot of times. I have male clients come to me and they're not necessarily comfortable with dancing, just the word dancing. Might make their nervous systems start to get, a little hypervigilant. And so we can a start with a practice called Non-Linear Movement Method, which is a practice developed by McKayla Boem. And it's done for people in wheelchairs. For anybody, it's typically done on hands and knees with the eyes closed and with an eye mask. And so you're just moving your spine. Literally, and it's a really safe, easy space for someone to start with movement again. No one's looking at you. You've got an eye mask, like it's done on hands and knees. So you could do it very subtly, but I think it gives people in terms of if they're new to movement, that might feel safe also. I had them start with taking their opposite hand. If they're not into drawing, they're gonna draw with their opposite hand anyway. So this is not about it being. So when, so good, it is about getting into a different part of your brain so that you can access your subconscious mind. I also had them do bilateral drawings, so they're using both hands. So in that way they're synchronizing both hemispheres of their brain. Again, neuroplasticity, that's what I'm here for,

Marty: Got it.

Marisa: felt sense of shift and change that you can get through, literally changing things up in a very somatic experiential way.

Marty: It's so interesting. Yeah. 'Cause I work with mostly people in offices, and it's about their work usually not always, but, and so I can expand on some very simple things that I've done. I did such a simple thing is have them stand up and stretch and when they sit back down, there's so much more self-energy possible and I can ex that. And so given what you said, the movement of the spine. The, um, what was the other word you used? Like, getting into the other ways of, of feeling themselves. Like that helps me very much to know, okay, I can expand a little bit on the simple things that I've done and get and get them more aware of what's going on. And then, then when they sit back down, I ask them questions. It's amazing how much more is available to them. So thank you. That's very helpful.

Marisa: yes. Thanks for the question. I always love that question because people come, they're like, I'm not an artist. I'm like, everyone's an artist. There's someone that's coming to me that has incredible level of anxiety, a lot of anxious parts.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Marisa: often creatives that their creativity has gotten constipated and

Marty: Yeah,

Marisa: getting

Marty: exactly right.

Marisa: that's where I'm helpful.

Marty: I'm also dying to go to my piano and write music for all my parts now because.

Marisa: Yes.

Marty: I think that I've been kind of doing it on a unwittingly. I know a lot about what's going on inside of me, what, who, which of my parts I need to attend to, how, by what music is going on in my head at a, at any given time. You know, like, oh, I'm in my romantic mode. I'm doing that guy, right, that song and, or you know, like, oh, I'm, you know, it's, it's just drums. Oh, that part of me needs attention now. Right? Like, so this is all very enlightening. It's amazing how much wisdom you have in you.

Marisa: Thank you. I've been dancing the five rhythms practice since 2012, and that practice has deeply informed my ability to move through life. every energy and all the emotions.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Marisa: also a map just like IFS on how to navigate your psyche and your life.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marisa: what's interesting is I have these structures that I feel like are really valuable in how helping me manage my parts, but I have these really intense parts that are very loud and. I and they like to express themselves and finding ways to do that by using creativity instead of self-destruction. Otherwise they self-destruct if they don't, express 'cause they're, it can be very, 'cause I feel things intensely. Yeah, I've had to find ways to safely a safe container for my parts to, to express themselves.

Marty: Yeah.

Marisa: wrong with being a highly sensitive person or feeling things deeply or being a lot or, whatever

Marty: Or being a little,

Marisa: or being a little whatever and whatever it is that you are.

Marty: yeah.

Bill: When you say manage your parts, that when I'm working with my clients and I hear them use that language from, that's a yellow flag. That needs to be addressed. But I think I understand what you mean by managing your parts. You just defined it. You wanna give, you wanna find a way to help your parts express themselves, and that's.

Marisa: Yes. Without, yeah, 'cause it gets really sneaky because I have helper parts too that think that they need to help manage, the parts that aren't in line or whatever. So I hear when you say the yellow flag, I completely get what you're saying. To be mindful of, am I trying to manage, put these parts in line or am I trying to understand and make space for all of them and give compassionate

Bill: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marisa: in their expression and how they show up? It's a constant practice of cultivating what I call my iboga self energy.

Bill: Nice. I've had a lot of different jobs. I've worked for 55 years and have spanned something like seven different careers, I've worked for a lot of managers. And there are great managers and there are not so great managers. And the not so great managers often are very heavily agenda laden and see me as an employee, as a piece of the machine that needs to be manipulated and used. The great managers are the ones that recognize that. That, that I, that the best thing they can do is if I'm a piece of a machine is grease the way for me. And so there's a def there's different management styles. is, and we're not talking about leadership here, there's self-leadership, but there's also self-leadership that manages parts by helping them, as you say, to find their true expressions and greasing the way for them making it easy for them, easing their way.

Marisa: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. So valuable, so potent to grease the way rather than trying to have an agenda

Bill: Yeah,

Marisa: and manipulate into the ways that you want them to be.

Bill: of the early, recognitions, I guess that I got once I started to understand my own internal system, as I went through levels one and two training with the institute, was to recognize that when parts give up their old jobs. Most of the time they don't wanna retire. They want something else to do, and sometimes they have an idea of what they wanna do and sometimes they don't. So I began to develop the practice of keeping a list of job opportunities for job, for parts that themselves unemployed.

Marty: Oh, that's.

Marisa: I love that.

Bill: So I'll go through the list with the parts. Okay, here's something I need a part. I help me to remember that every Friday afternoon I need to review my blog articles and make sure they're up to date. And you interested in that job? No. Boring. Okay. I've got another job opening. Here's a part. I need a part that will help me to remember that I'm married. That I need to connect with my wife every once in a while and that I can't stay completely buried in my work. Are you interested in that job? The part might say, yeah, it sounds but I'm not sure how I can do that. Okay, we're gonna need some on the job training then. Cool. Great. So that's how I work with my own system.

Marisa: That is neat. Thank you for sharing. That's so inspiring.

Bill: Yeah, parts, most parts don't want to remain dormant. I'm, I have other parts that wanted to say, okay, I'm done. I'm just gonna integrate into your whole system, and if you need me, let me know. But they're, then, I don't ever hear from them again after that. They've just completely integrated and they are part, truly part of who I am, and if they're specializing at all. I don't know that until they actually show up in some special, specialized way. And then a part that I might have worked with five years ago shows up again in a new role.

Marisa: Totally. I've had that experience as well when my part that likes to distract me and with food and cookies, it now yawns

Bill: Ah,

Marisa: to distract me. So it takes, still takes over the whole system and stops me from whatever is going on. But it's trans, it's changed. Its.

Bill: It's found a way that.

Marisa: my system. It's found

Bill: It's found a way that is more aligned with current reality.

Marisa: Yes.

Bill: Yeah. Cool. Cool. we doing for time? We got some time, don't we?

Marty: I'm very curious about the topic you mentioned about the, your the self itself. I, because I, I think a lot of people have a view of what self is and how to talk about it, and so I think that would be a worthwhile thing to get into.

Bill: Great. Yeah, so just let you say whatever you'd like to say about that, Marissa, unless you need to hear from me or Marty about it First.

Marisa: When I feel into self energy, it's the part of me that, channels the songs from the Divine and that are super catchy and get stuck in your head. It's grounded and clear and fearless. And obs like more neutral, like observe, observing like the, it's like my archetype of the white, like kind of the white galactic wizard. It's doesn't rush. She doesn't rush for anyone. She doesn't need to worry about anything. So she doesn't have to be anxious 'cause she trusts life 'cause she's divinely connected. It's this. Energy of dev, total trust, integrity, presence where I don't feel like I have to run away or avoid, I feel settled in my nervous system. I feel really like just open heart centered,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: describing is self-energy, and I love that. I love that what you're describing is your experience. about the concept or theory that explains that experience, which

Marty: Right.

Bill: see as self.

Marisa: Yeah, yeah I feel it as that

Marty: Yeah.

Marisa: self energy. It, what self is the the part of the, I guess the part of the true higher self part of yourself that is not a part and it doesn't have an agenda, and it's like the observer of,

Bill: So let me share if I could, the distinction that through experience of working with my own system and that with my clients, and I'd love your take on this PLE feel. Please feel free to completely disagree with my take.

Marisa: go ahead.

Bill: of all, as I said, I love that you, when I asked you about self, you, described your experience of self-energy. So that's real. Nobody can des we could call it something else, but your energy changes when you are imbued with self energy.

Marisa: yes.

Bill: The idea of self is a theory. It's not an experience. Therefore I question. Does self exist at all? Self-energy exists. I know because I have the experience of it, and when I have the experience of it, it is manifested through my parts. doesn't show up as a separate entity of any kind, in my experience. I'm experiencing through my eyes. For example, the appreciation for seeing the buds in springs starting to show up on the plants or the trees, first robin of the year, the first snowfall or any snowfall. The the beauty of a newborn baby. The experience of that is, is perceived through my self energized parts. And giving me feedback that then somehow seems to link to the next part and the next part and the next part. And now there's this movement within me of all of these self energized parts. And so that's the experience of self-energy and I'm okay with calling that self where I get off get feel like it's a little off, is. When then I have to create something in my mind, like a cognitive creation to explain the experience I'm having and calling that self.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marisa: Can it even be defined? Can we, it's in, can we even define, does it need to be defined?

Bill: I don't know that it was. I'm open to, first of all, recognizing that I'm part of the whole, and the whole includes something beyond what I identify as myself. In fact, I've told Marty about this before and others that are in my life. Occasionally in the middle of coaching sessions with clients, I'll get a download and it doesn't feel like I have a choice about whether to share it or not. In fact, if I resist sharing the download, it gets painful. get distracted. I can't, I'm not paying attention anymore. It's almost like the download is saying, you must share this. This is here for you to share right now. So what is that? I don't know. But something tells me it's somehow related to that same self energy that I experienced.

Marisa: Yeah.

Marty: Would you say, ' cause I'm relating this to the self, as in like the yogic tradition. And uh, there the self is considered both imminent. In things like in each part, in the experience of the birds and spring and the archetype and all of that, and also transcends them. It's both imminent and transcendent now. There's no concept to make up about it, but it's, it's, it's both in things, but it's not. It's also unifying of them. Uh, you know, it so it's transcendent at the same time. It's in and transcends. Um, does that ring true to you?

Marisa: That rings true to me.

Marty: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: and Sure. And me too. And here's the thing that, that's, I think that's most important about all of it is once again, it's the experience of it. And I am drawn to have more and more of that experience. And the irony, almost the, is it the irony? Yeah, let's say it that way, that in order to have more experience of it, I need to be willing to have less experience of it. In other words, I need to be able to just blend in and lean into those parts of me that are, that, that are cut off from it.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: I,

Marty: Yeah.

Marisa: Yeah. A surrendering and trusting and allowing.

Marty: Beyond, beyond each 'cause those are all concepts in a sense. And so it's, it, you know, like leaning into, like fully attending to them, to their conceptuality, you know, it disappears and then, and you're just in the itself, itself.

Bill: well, and that's often what is creating the suffering in the first place is

Marty: Exactly right. And in the yogi tradition, those are called samskara. They, there are things that stick with us from one life to the other, but they can be, but they can be yeah. A worked yeah, in, they can be integrated, they can be better integrated.

Marisa: it reminds me of, when oftentimes people wanna do psychedelic work so that they could blast through their egos. Be one with everything. it doesn't always work that way. 'cause you know your psyche will only let you go as far as you've done the work to meet your parts.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Marisa: ' cause you can't break through what your psyche won't let you break through.

Bill: yes. Psychedelic integration facilitator or coach. That's part of your bio. There's, I you're a psychedelic integration coach. So what are the, like the core. don't know. What are they principles or guide concepts, I guess that you use to help people integrate their psychedelic experiences?

Marisa: Yeah, one is like rituals and intentional prac embodied practices that help them take their insights and make them. Practicable. So if for example, they felt deeper level of compassion for their inner child who's scared of being loved, for example, how can we take that insight and put that into actionable practice so that they can build relationship with that part in the coming weeks as they are still in that window of neuroplasticity. So they're more open to learning new things. They're ma more malleable in their brain. so some practices could be, maybe there's a song that they wanna sing for that part to remind them of their innocence. Or maybe they have a mantra that goes with movement to embody their what is that they wanna create. So I recently had a client who called in grandma Clarity. And so we had this movement, sound, and movement to help her integrate this knowing that she could call upon this energy of her ancestor and it had a shape and it had a repetition, and she practiced when she practiced that. Now she doesn't even have to say grandma Clarity as soon as she puts her hands together and goes like this. She's creating neural neurolinguistic programming basically, and anchoring in her nervous system to allow her to remember what peace feels like.

Marty: Yeah.

Marisa: as a certified hypnotherapist as well, I use like these, what these earworm mantras and these embodiment practices and, whether it's tapping or some form of way of connecting to the body. Speaking it out loud and creating rituals that are repeatable, consistent, committed, and perfect actions that help that person take their insights and actually build relationship and through a creative process. And sometimes we make healing tools. They've made huge pillars of all sorts of artistic things. I find all sorts of ways in helping people connect to their parts

Marty: I think,

Marisa: and integration.

Marty: sorry, I didn't mean to talk over you. Touch. And visual vision, seeing certain things too, like the paintings that you have on your wall, they, I assume that they bring you to a certain place. They remind you.

Marisa: too. The music definitely guides the journey.

Marty: And touch as well. I would imagine some people for them, you know.

Marisa: Yes.

Marty: To touch certain fabric or the rough tree bark or something will presence those states.

Marisa: A hundred percent. So part of somatic experiencing and somatic work is, and regulating the nervous system is like orientation. Orienting yourself to three things that are green and four things that are blue, and finding something that's soft and putting your head in cold water. And so there's all these different sensations that help bring presence into the body so that you can be unaware of what you feel and need in the moment so that you can attend to it. But it takes us slowing down and it takes a trusting that it's safe to slow down, which is where the preparation and nervous system work with that I do with clients before. experiences sets them up for success.

Marty: Got it. I know that we have to wind down soon, uh, unfortunately. What, uh, how can people get in touch with you if they'd like to talk with you more?

Marisa: Yeah, so I am on community. I have a biweekly group call that's every other Monday at 6:00 PM Eastern Time over Zoom, and it's called the Resource and Support Group Call in the En Theo space. So it's a safe space to talk about, learn and share about psychedelics, ask questions. Also just a place to share on what's on your heart and mind. Sometimes we do IFS prompts and things like that for prep and integration. Also, they can book a free discovery call on my website, which is www.marissaskoki.com, M-A-R-I-S-A-S-K-O-L-K y.com. And my, my, my business is Beyond Limits expressive arts therapy. So I offer both psychedelic prep and integration work, as well as expressive arts therapy, dementia, adult daycare support, and also I support, women and girls that have been sex trafficked and sexually abused and find creative ways to make their trauma, their art. So I'm affiliated with so different types of nonprofits that employ me to help them with that. So I'm all over the place.

Bill: you are

Marisa: Yeah.

Bill: the.

Marisa: muchness free discovery calls though, so people can see if my work is right for

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Marisa: website.

Bill: They can set that up by going to your website@marissasulke.com.

Marisa: it's free 45 minutes and I make it long so that I can get a deep understanding for where they're at and what they've already tried. 'cause most of the time people are coming to me 'cause they've tried everything and they are at a point of major transition. They've lost their job, or they're changing careers, or they've gotten divorced, or they're so tired of fighting themselves, they're exhausted, their nervous systems are dysregulated and they're ready for something totally different.

Bill: You

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: group. I don't see the link here for that. Would you, how would they set, how would they, how does that go?

Marisa: under. So I can also put that in the chat as well. And also if they go to my website under group

Bill: Oh, okay.

Marisa: they'll be able to find that as

Bill: Okay. That's all we need then.

Marty: Okay.

Marisa: Yeah.

Bill: Wow. I'm, I so appreciate that you reached out and told us that you wanted to be a guest and what a pleasant surprise it is to have you here. Surprised only because I hadn't met you before and didn't quite know what to expect. frankly, when I read some of the things that were on the bio that you sent over, I thought, oh boy, here we go. And everything that I've heard you say, I'm just, it just fills me up. It just delights me that you're doing all of these things and I wanna acknowledge you for boy, the investment. Whew. The deep investment from the risk of one in 400 dying with this plant medicine that you took to clearly your investment and time, energy, money, effort into expanding your awareness in your toolbox for being able to help others. What a generous heart you have.

Marisa: Oh, thank you. I receive,

Bill: Great. Yeah. Thank you for your muchness.

Marisa: Oh, thank you for creating a safe space for us to connect and share honestly, vulnerably and yeah, openly. It's such a pleasure. Both of your energies feel really nourishing and feel safe to my nervous system. And I'm grateful that there are incredible men that are doing this work, that are creating safe spaces for others and helping them empower them to tune into their hearts.

Bill: Yeah, we're on the leading edge, aren't we? All of us.

Marisa: Yes.

Bill: Okay. Thanks again, Marissa. Stay in touch.

Marisa: you so much. It's been a pleasure.